A
Since food is such an intense subject in Jewish culture and religion, let's try to keep to a few guidelines:
Hi, I'm Marc, I go by alter kaker (AK) because I like Yiddish and I've been startinf to feel old in the last few years.
I am an Orthodox Jew, and not very good at it. I didn't grow up that way. I was born in the Former Soviet Union, and moved to Israel with my family at 5. At 21, I moved to the US. For years I identified just as Russian, but eventually I learned to embrace my Jewishness, eventually beginning a process of Teshuvah.
I have 5 children from two marriages. They are 15, 13, 11, and two twins thet are about 15 months old.
I work as a software engineer. I'm self taught; I've been a gas station attendant, dishwasher, canvasser, welder, driver, janitor, teacher, and probably some other things too. I am one of those computer nerds who actually enjoys computers most of the time. I have a blog where I talk about that. I also have an older blog called Shabbos Tish where my wife and I I talk about more Jewish topics, but that's been inactive for a few years.
I play banjo.
Anyway, that's enough for now, I look forward to getting to know everyone better.
I think that we can just put the relevant term in a tag, such as kitniyos/kitniyot
(English follows)
רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל בְּנוֹ שֶׁל רַבִּי יְהוּדָה הַנָּשִׂיא אוֹמֵר, יָפֶה תַלְמוּד תּוֹרָה עִם דֶּרֶךְ אֶרֶץ, שֶׁיְּגִיעַת שְׁנֵיהֶם מְשַׁכַּחַת עָוֹן. וְכָל תּוֹרָה שֶׁאֵין עִמָּהּ מְלָאכָה, סוֹפָהּ בְּטֵלָה וְגוֹרֶרֶת עָוֹן. וְכָל הָעֲמֵלִים עִם הַצִּבּוּר, יִהְיוּ עֲמֵלִים עִמָּהֶם לְשֵׁם שָׁמַיִם, שֶׁזְּכוּת אֲבוֹתָם מְסַיַּעְתָּן וְצִדְקָתָם עוֹמֶדֶת לָעַד. וְאַתֶּם, מַעֲלֶה אֲנִי עֲלֵיכֶם שָׂכָר הַרְבֵּה כְּאִלּוּ עֲשִׂיתֶם:
Rabban Gamaliel the son of Rabbi Judah Hanasi said: excellent is the study of the Torah when combined with a worldly occupation, for toil in them both keeps sin out of one’s mind; But [study of the] Torah which is not combined with a worldly occupation, in the end comes to be neglected and becomes the cause of sin.
There's a debate between Rambam and Abarbanel about this mishna. Rambam says:
ר"ל בדרך ארץ הנה העוסק בפרנסה ואמרו וגוררת עון כמו שבארנו במקום אחר אמרו סופו שהוא מלסטם את הבריות
By derekh erets (the way of the world), he meant involvement in a livelihood. And his saying, "and leads to sin" is as I explained it in another place [about] their saying (Kiddushin 29a), "In the end he will steal from the creatures."
Abarbanel counters:
'דרך ארץ ומלאכה' לא כיון אומנות הידיים כי אם על החכמה המדינית וידיעת המדות המשובחות והנהגתם. כי על זה נאמר באמת "דרך ארץ" ושם "מלאכה" עליו נאמר גם כן, לפי שהידיעה המדותיית תכליתה המעשה.
"derekh eretz and melakha" doesn't mean labor with the hands, but political wisdom and knowing the virtues and attaining them. For on this it is truly said "derekh eretz" and there "melakha" is also said, because knowing of virtues its essence is in the deed."
On the one hand, as a working class Jew I've always felt strongly drawn to Rambam's interpretation, that a Torah teacher must also work in a trade and not be reliant on payment for Torah lest he is corrupted, and so that he would have experience making a living.
But Abarbanel's position that Derech Eretz means that a leader of the people must understand politics in addition to knowing Torah so that he would be able to deal with the malchus—and (my addition) not mislead the people into the arms of charlatans and con men, especially appealing today...
I do really think that the dialectic of Torah-Derekh Eretz can contain both interpretations, they're just applicable in slightly different areas of the responsibility of a leader.
I am really torn because I don't feel like we can afford apathy. How much is it necessary to be informed on the latest and greatest news to know what is needed to be done by me? Probably not much. Ok the other hand, were not going to live to witness something like this again (although we might be watching this unfold for the rest of our lives).
Either way, the events here did get me away from always checking need in Israel, for example.
I've been playing banjo for a pretty long time, I started in the Old Time style, but ran into a problem, because even though I was learning the techniques and getting pretty good at it, I didn't really understand the music. So I started playing music I did understand—Jewish music from Eastern Europe, in the Polish and Lithuanian styles which are very close to the sounds of Russia and the USSR that I grew up on, along with Yiddish lyrical music. I had to develop my own playing technique from scratch, since existing Klezmer banjo styles grow out of Bluegrass rather than Old Time.
More tags?
BDE
Welcome Duke! I'm very pleased to see you here, as a fellow not very good BT. Actually I don't use Ba'al Teshuvah, I just say I'm working on it. Bay bisl—a little at a time.
I hope that this is ok with everyone, but just in case I created a topic for feedback.
I created a pinned post, Kashrus with some guidelines to posting about food. This would be a good place to discuss it.
If I see one more person share quotes from Revelations, I am going to plotz.
This is from the prophecies of Isaiah son of Amoz, which we read on the Shabbos preceding the 9th of Ov, as we prepare to mourn the destruction of Jerusalem and all the other calamities that befell the Jewish people because of our sins. And it seems to me as though he was writing about us, today.
שִׁמְע֥וּ דְבַר־יְהֹוָ֖ה קְצִינֵ֣י סְדֹ֑ם הַאֲזִ֛ינוּ תּוֹרַ֥ת אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ עַ֥ם עֲמֹרָֽה׃
Hear the word of GOD,
You chieftains of Sodom;
Give ear to our God’s instruction,
You folk of Gomorrah!
לָמָּה־לִּ֤י רֹב־זִבְחֵיכֶם֙ יֹאמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֔ה שָׂבַ֛עְתִּי עֹל֥וֹת אֵילִ֖ים וְחֵ֣לֶב מְרִיאִ֑ים וְדַ֨ם פָּרִ֧ים וּכְבָשִׂ֛ים וְעַתּוּדִ֖ים לֹ֥א חָפָֽצְתִּי׃
“What need have I of all your sacrifices?”
Says GOD.
“I am sated with burnt offerings of rams,
And suet of fatlings,
And blood of bulls;
And I have no delight
In lambs and he-goats.
כִּ֣י תָבֹ֔אוּ לֵֽרָא֖וֹת פָּנָ֑י מִֽי־בִקֵּ֥שׁ זֹ֛את מִיֶּדְכֶ֖ם רְמֹ֥ס חֲצֵרָֽי׃
That you come to appear before Me—
Who asked that of you?
Trample My courts
לֹ֣א תוֹסִ֗יפוּ הָבִיא֙ מִנְחַת־שָׁ֔וְא קְטֹ֧רֶת תּוֹעֵבָ֛ה הִ֖יא לִ֑י חֹ֤דֶשׁ וְשַׁבָּת֙ קְרֹ֣א מִקְרָ֔א לֹא־אוּכַ֥ל אָ֖וֶן וַֽעֲצָרָֽה׃
no more;
Bringing oblations is futile,
Incense is offensive to Me.
New moon and sabbath,
Proclaiming of solemnities,
Assemblies with iniquity
I cannot abide.
חׇדְשֵׁיכֶ֤ם וּמֽוֹעֲדֵיכֶם֙ שָֽׂנְאָ֣ה נַפְשִׁ֔י הָי֥וּ עָלַ֖י לָטֹ֑רַח נִלְאֵ֖יתִי נְשֹֽׂא׃
Your new moons and fixed seasons
Fill Me with loathing;
They are become a burden to Me,
I cannot endure them.
וּבְפָרִשְׂכֶ֣ם כַּפֵּיכֶ֗ם אַעְלִ֤ים עֵינַי֙ מִכֶּ֔ם גַּ֛ם כִּֽי־תַרְבּ֥וּ תְפִלָּ֖ה אֵינֶ֣נִּי שֹׁמֵ֑עַ יְדֵיכֶ֖ם דָּמִ֥ים מָלֵֽאוּ׃
And when you lift up your hands,
I will turn My eyes away from you;
Though you pray at length,
I will not listen.
Your hands are stained with crime—
רַֽחֲצוּ֙ הִזַּכּ֔וּ הָסִ֛ירוּ רֹ֥עַ מַעַלְלֵיכֶ֖ם מִנֶּ֣גֶד עֵינָ֑י חִדְל֖וּ הָרֵֽעַ׃
Wash yourselves clean;
Put your evil doings
Away from My sight.
Cease to do evil;
לִמְד֥וּ הֵיטֵ֛ב דִּרְשׁ֥וּ מִשְׁפָּ֖ט אַשְּׁר֣וּ חָמ֑וֹץ שִׁפְט֣וּ יָת֔וֹם רִ֖יבוּ אַלְמָנָֽה׃ {ס}
Learn to do good.
Devote yourselves to justice;
Aid the wronged.
Uphold the rights of the orphan;
Defend the cause of the widow.
Perfect
Our rabbi talked today about some parallels between the creation story in Bereishis and the crossing of the Sea of Reeds by the Israelites. This is based on a teaching by Rabbi David Fohrman, which I heard from Rabbi Davis in St Louis Park, MN.
During the Kiddush of Seudas Leil Shabbos, the sanctification of the evening meal on Shabbos, we say about Shabbos that it is זיכרון למעשה בראשית and זכר ליציאת מצרים: a remembrance of the Deed of Creation and a remembrance of the Exodus of Egypt.
What does this mean?
A remembrance of the Deed of Creation is pretty obvious—Shabbos is the Seventh Day of Creation, when Hashem rested after creating the Universe and everything in it. But how is Shabbos a remembrance of the Exodus?
The peshat, the simple meaning, is this: what is the most obvious thing about the life of a slave? That a slave doesn't get to rest. On Shabbos, we rest, which is something we are only able to do because we were liberated from slavery. But there's another, more hidden but also more interesting meaning. Because Shabbos is the culmination of Creation, its link to Yetzias Mitzrayim, the Exodus of Egypt, gives us an opportunity to see a link between the Exodus and the act of Creation itself. We can do this by enumerating the elements present in Creation and how they are all present in the Exodus.
On Day 1, there are darkness, wind, and light:
וְהָאָ֗רֶץ הָיְתָ֥ה תֹ֙הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ עַל־פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם וְר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים מְרַחֶ֖פֶת עַל־פְּנֵ֥י הַמָּֽיִם׃
וַיֹּ֥אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֖ים יְהִ֣י א֑וֹר וַֽיְהִי־אֽוֹר׃
the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind from God sweeping over the water—
God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
The elements here are light, darkness and wind. We have the darkness, Shemos 14:20:
וַיָּבֹ֞א בֵּ֣ין ׀ מַחֲנֵ֣ה מִצְרַ֗יִם וּבֵין֙ מַחֲנֵ֣ה יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל וַיְהִ֤י הֶֽעָנָן֙ וְהַחֹ֔שֶׁךְ וַיָּ֖אֶר אֶת־הַלָּ֑יְלָה וְלֹא־קָרַ֥ב זֶ֛ה אֶל־זֶ֖ה כׇּל־הַלָּֽיְלָה׃
and it came between the army of the Egyptians and the army of Israel. Thus there was the cloud with the darkness, and it cast a spell upon the night, so that the one could not come near the other all through the night.
And the wind, in the next posuk:
וַיֵּ֨ט מֹשֶׁ֣ה אֶת־יָדוֹ֮ עַל־הַיָּם֒ וַיּ֣וֹלֶךְ יְהֹוָ֣ה ׀ אֶת־הַ֠יָּ֠ם בְּר֨וּחַ קָדִ֤ים עַזָּה֙ כׇּל־הַלַּ֔יְלָה וַיָּ֥שֶׂם אֶת־הַיָּ֖ם לֶחָרָבָ֑ה וַיִּבָּקְע֖וּ הַמָּֽיִם׃
Then Moses held out his arm over the sea and יהוה drove back the sea with a strong east wind all that night, and turned the sea into dry ground.
The waters were split in Bereishis 1.6, Day 2:
וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים יְהִ֥י רָקִ֖יעַ בְּת֣וֹךְ הַמָּ֑יִם וִיהִ֣י מַבְדִּ֔יל בֵּ֥ין מַ֖יִם לָמָֽיִם׃
God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, that it may separate water from water.”
the land appears from under the water, on Day 3, Bereishis 1:9:
וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֗ים יִקָּו֨וּ הַמַּ֜יִם מִתַּ֤חַת הַשָּׁמַ֙יִם֙ אֶל־מָק֣וֹם אֶחָ֔ד וְתֵרָאֶ֖ה הַיַּבָּשָׁ֑ה וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן׃
God said, “Let the water below the sky be gathered into one area, that the dry land may appear.” And it was so.
Back to the light from Day 1, we see it in Shemos 14.24:
וַֽיְהִי֙ בְּאַשְׁמֹ֣רֶת הַבֹּ֔קֶר וַיַּשְׁקֵ֤ף יְהֹוָה֙ אֶל־מַחֲנֵ֣ה מִצְרַ֔יִם בְּעַמּ֥וּד אֵ֖שׁ וְעָנָ֑ן וַיָּ֕הׇם אֵ֖ת מַחֲנֵ֥ה מִצְרָֽיִם׃
At the morning watch, יהוה looked down upon the Egyptian army from a pillar of fire and cloud, and threw the Egyptian army into panic.
On the following Days, Hashem also created the Sun and the Moon, which are also obviously present, and the animals, which we know were part of the Exodus because the Israelites brought their livestock, in Shemos 12:38:
וְגַם־עֵ֥רֶב רַ֖ב עָלָ֣ה אִתָּ֑ם וְצֹ֣אן וּבָקָ֔ר מִקְנֶ֖ה כָּבֵ֥ד מְאֹֽד׃
Moreover, a mixed multitude went up with them, and very much livestock, both flocks and herds.
There's one more thing that is missing, from back in Day 3, which is vegetation, specifically fruit trees:
וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֗ים תַּֽדְשֵׁ֤א הָאָ֙רֶץ֙ דֶּ֗שֶׁא עֵ֚שֶׂב מַזְרִ֣יעַ זֶ֔רַע עֵ֣ץ פְּרִ֞י עֹ֤שֶׂה פְּרִי֙ לְמִינ֔וֹ אֲשֶׁ֥ר זַרְעוֹ־ב֖וֹ עַל־הָאָ֑רֶץ וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן׃
And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation: seed-bearing plants, fruit trees of every kind on earth that bear fruit with the seed in it.” And it was so.
But this was also present! We read in Shemos Rabbah 21:10
דָּרַשׁ רַבִּי נְהוֹרָאי, הָיְתָה בַּת יִשְׂרָאֵל עוֹבֶרֶת בַּיָּם וּבְנָהּ בְּיָדָהּ וּבוֹכֶה, וּפוֹשֶׁטֶת יָדָהּ וְנוֹטֶלֶת תַּפּוּחַ אוֹ רִמּוֹן מִתּוֹךְ הַיָּם וְנוֹתֶנֶת לוֹ
Rabbi Nehorai expounded: An Israelite woman would pass through the sea, with her son crying in her hand, and she would extend her hand and take an apple or a pomegranate from the sea and give it to him
I learned about this midrash before, where it was presented as part of a shiur on the utterly miraculous nature of the Exodus, and the extremely high spiritual level of the Children of Israel as they exited Egypt. I personally am skeptical about the high spiritual level of our ancestors, who were saved by Hashem from slavery, and shown amazing miracles, and yet, just like we would have, complained every step of the way. Either way, back then it did not make a huge impression. But, taken as part of this broader pattern, it brings the element of fruit and beautifully completes the picture.
So now we have to ask the question: what's the point? Why does Hashem want to draw our attention to a parallel between Creation and Exodus?
The parallel is because the Exodus was not just a normal event, but it was set up for us as a transition into a totally new paradigm, a new universe. When we left Egypt and crossed the Sea of Reeds, we moved from the world of Egypt into the world of Torah. How are they different?
The following is my interpretation:
Egypt was the greatest empire in the world at the time, the greatest center of authoritarian power the world had ever known back then. Even though he was just a mortal man, Pharaoh claimed the status of a god, because he had the power to force people to worship him. As someone said to me, a true absolute ruler has the power of life and death over his subjects. I think that that is inaccurate: a tyrant can't create life—God can do that, and through God we can do it as parents. A tyrant's power is actually just the power to destroy, the power of death. Pharaoh can say: do what I say or I'll kill you. I'll blow you up, I'll blow up your family, I'll blow up your neighborhood, I'll blow up your city...
When Bnei Yisroel miraculously crossed the Sea of Reeds, they left a world which served authoritarian, coercive power into the world of Torah, where Borei Oilom reveals His true power to us: the power to create a whole universe, full of light and life. That power is infinitely greater than the power of a tyrant, even though he should call himself a god all day long. And while we are encouraged to fear Hashem, the greatest virtue is to serve Hashem because we recognize the greatness of this power, next to which Pharaoh's type of power is so puny that it doesn't even exist.
That is the gift that Hashem gave us in the Torah: the opportunity (as we say in Aleinu, which concludes the morning, afternoon, and evening prayers. Thank you Moishe!) to beכּוֹרְעִים וּמִשְׁתַּחֲוִים וּמוֹדִים ,לִפְנֵי מֶלֶךְ מַלְכֵי הַמְּלָכִים הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא—bend our knees, bow and acknowledge our thanks before the King who reigns over kings.—next to whom the mightiest emperor is no greater, no more important, and no more worthy of worship than the smallest baby or the most impoverished stranger; and that is the profound liberation that we are reminded of every Shabbos as we rest in memory of the Creation of the Universe.
Esperanto has also the element of "something Jewish but not Jewish" which is less cute, but at the very least there's one good joke that came out of it