Pluralism Rules

[alter_kaker]

In re the discussion in Meta Topic—What do we Want?

@alter_kaker said in Meta Topic—What do we Want?:

Another question is religion and how do we handle the radical differences between different frames of reference (i.e. Orthodox, Reform, etc)? I'm Orthodox, for example, which means that I need to either stay out of some conversations because my understanding is going to be straight up not welcome, or participate in some kind of bowlderized way, or risk serious conflict. One of my goals is to enable a space where people of different FoRs can interact, because I know Jews who for example have never knowingly spoken to a Reform Jew, or an Orthodox Jew, or a Queer person.

@talya said in Meta Topic—What do we Want?:

idk if i'm once again too trusting, but i'm thinking that so long as we proactively remind people that all FoRs are valid so long as they don't actively harm another person, that people should stay respectful, mindful of their biases, then i don't see why different FoRs wouldn't be able to mix. i think that so long as someone didn't open a discussion explicitly saying "hey i want to get the PoV of people from this FoR only, thanks", there's no reason not to allow someone to join in, so long as they're aware of their limits (and even possibly state them outloud, e.g. "as someone who grew up in Israel i'm aware my perspective on this may be biased, but yada yada").

@ellie said in Meta Topic—What do we Want?:

Make that goal clear from the outset. Also create a thread specifically to talk about how to do this so early members are all involved and those who join later can see our work and contribute their thoughts.
Tags so readers have an idea what to expect is good, and so is the expectation that people will handle themselves.

I'm going back and forth on the idea of categories for the movements while the group is small and have currently landed on build it so it's clear there's space for everyone.

I think that for me, Pluralism is a fundamental political principle, although as a value I still need to do work to define it within my Orthodox FoR. I would like this to be a space where we can practice pluralism, even when it's difficult and personal and messy. I hope that we can, as a community, reflect the larger Jewish community with all its great diversity, but learn, despite some existentially profound differences, to hold each other as fellows so that we can coexist within this small delimited space.

When you really think about it, pluralism is incredibly difficult; and it seems that each corner of the Jewish community has deeply held beliefs that totally invalidate the existence of at least one other corner (as someone who has inhabited a probably unusual number of corners, I can say this with confidence). How do we do it? How can we stay true to ourselves and our beliefs, but still carve out a space for others for whom our beliefs don't explicitly make space? Maybe we can start with a set of rules. We're Jews after all...

Oh and I hope that some of the very knowledgeable Torah students I invited come and help us talk about how to understand pluralism Jewishly in the Torah section.

[alter_kaker]

1. Be respectful of other people's humanity
   Examples: don't misgender people, don't tell people that they are child abusing misogynistic cultists.

[talya]

2. Be respectful of other people's beliefs and opinions
   The Jewish People has been full of diversity since before the destruction of the Second Temple. People are allowed to be wrong so long as this space is kept safe and inclusive.
3. Be mindful of your own biases
   We all have our blindspots, it is the nature of being human. Remember that no single person knows all there is to know and no person has experienced all there is to experience. You will be ignorant about certain stuff, as will everyone else.

(wdyt? it's very much written in my style so idk if it needs changes or if i'm barking up the wrong tree to begin with)

[alter_kaker]

Yeah that makes sense, although the second one isn't so much a rule as good life advice

I'd like to work the phrasing to make it more "neutral" just in case some of my more conservative community members do show up, because they might not understand some of the diction that's more spcial-justice specific. That's why I was trying to just use a couple of examples in mine, that would address common things to expect from different people. I should probably remove the word "misgender" and just define it instead (something like "address people by the gender they present themselves as to you" or something like that.

This is a difficult conversation

[plubgoard]

I'm on a large pluralistic Jewish Discord server and there is a lot of monitoring and rules regarding pluralism to make sure things go smoothly. I'll copy paste some of the relevant sections, for potential inspiration.

Rule 0: Please remember that this is a social server.
As a general rule, the moderation team values the friendly vibe of the server more than freedom of speech.

This server is not primarily a place for debates. This server is not primarily a resource for answering questions. Some people here enjoy friendly debates or serious discussions or answering questions, but joining this server and immediately trying to debate or treating users here as a resource to interrogate might be regarded as unwelcome behavior. Hang out with us a bit first, get the vibe, then ask away with pleasure. This is a Jewish space. Non-jews are always welcome, but Jews are often prioritized.

Rule 1: Don't be a jerk.
Don’t troll or harass people for any reason. Don’t use personal attacks, insults, or ad hominems, even against people with whom you are not debating, or people who are not on this server.

No antisemitism or other forms of discrimination. This includes things but is not limited to: bigotry (based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.), anti-denominational language, sweeping generalizations, bringing up conversion or Jewish identity status.

Don't proselytize for other religions or lack thereof. Don't proselytize for your denomination or group over others.

No unsolicited lecturing when directed at another person. (Lecturing is permitted when solicited.) It quickly becomes annoying and patronizing and can easily spark conflict.

Rule 3: Some topics may only be discussed in certain channels.
There is a category called "Serious" that includes channels for news/politics, Israel, and health/wellness. Due to the heavier content these channels are more heavily policed, especially the first two. Content that belongs in these channels should not be posted elsewhere. In other channels, we're generally fairly relaxed if the content belongs elsewhere. Try to be extra sensitive and considerate in these channels.

A note on sensitivity:

This server has a pretty restrictive and complex strategy for avoiding conflict between the various groups here that warrants a separate, longer explanation.

Like the sub, our aim here is to create a space where all different sorts of Jews can get along, hang out together and hopefully learn something from each other. Unlike the sub however, this is a small intimate space where people mostly know each other personally, some people read every message, messages are synchronous and strangers coming in every day are pretty minimal - it's just a different platform.

As such, we try to avoid inflammatory and offensive sentiments a lot more and plenty of very important and legitimate conversations do not have a place here. It's a bit difficult to reduce this to clear rules and that could be unnecessarily restrictive, so it's a bit ‘we know it when we see it’ and we ask that you try to keep it in mind and actively try to think before you type. But here are some general concepts and guidelines:

Disagreement and Pluralism:
Try to respect people with different views to you and remember that their disagreement is not because they're lacking intelligence or information. They likely already know of that great argument or rebuttal and simply don't find it convincing. And they likely have good reasons for their views, even if you can't think of any.

Rather than saying you disagree with someone else, say what it is you believe about the subject.

Try to talk to people, not at people. Share mutually rather than lecturing.

We use denominations to distinguish, to say something is correct or incorrect within a given denomination. However, this is an imperfect tool—denominations are full of individuals and groups who differ and disagree.

Try to specify what denomination you're answering for and what denominations you're looking for answers from.

When tempted to correct, remember that just because someone has a different understanding of Judaism doesn't make them incorrect. Check tags of the people in the conversation before responding.

There's always more leeway to discuss one's own experiences even if not about one's own group, but try not to generalise beyond that. If something isn't for you, you can say that and explain why, but don't generalize to something negative about the group.

We don't want discussions here about whether users really belong to their claimed denomination.

Avoid trying to build a consensus or show that an opinion is ‘the mainstream’, or otherwise implicitly manoeuvring, implying that your perspective is the best or only valid one. A provocation need not be intentional to be effective.

Sensitive Topics:
If you find something about another group distasteful, or you know others do, just don't bring it up. You may have neutral intentions and even wording, but that doesn't mean it'll be received that way or that the discussion will remain that way.

When in doubt, ask or err on the side of caution. Remember no one owes you an explanation.

Exercise particular caution around topics that are not only controversial but also perennial, that people are tired of being confronted with and having to explain. Similarly, be cautious in discussions about topics that touch on the major distinctions between denominations or that are currently or generally the major talking points about them.

If there's a conversation you want to have on the server but shouldn't, consider whether there's an appropriate user you can DM about it instead. If there's not, consider whether that's a conversation you really need to have anyway.

“It's just a joke.” No, it's probably not, not for the butt of the joke. Try to be reasonably sure it'll be taken well by them before making such jokes.

Whitelist of groups one may mock: Nazis, tankies, and missionaries/Messianics. Anyone else, political or religious, however silly and obscure they seem to you, there's probably someone on the server with at least adjacent beliefs who may be upset by mockery. Yes, even that group you just thought of.

[alter_kaker]

That's pretty interesting. I don't think that all of it is appropriate here necessarily but really good stuff to think about. Thanks!

I'll come back with a more detailed response later.